Turbos

yes very as long as you stay under 10 pounds of boost and give it a good tune

is it a standard or auto?

Why are you calling 10 lbs is the limit? Will the head gasket fail or on pump gas will it start to knock?

10 pounds is just a safe limit mainly because of the bimetallic sleeves and the open deck block the factory sleeves with handle like 16 pounds butt your runnin a risk of putting the piston through the sleeve i say 8 pound for every day driving and is you want to bring it up the 10 or 12 at the track that is about the limit with out sacrificing reliability. to answer the other questions 25 to 28 pounds is the limit on pump gas, the factory head gasket will because useless around 20 or so

the cars stick if thats what you mean. its basically stock other then the strut bar, cold air intake and i had to swap out the master/slave cylinder but i was just concerned if i was going to blow anything really.

ight thanks. i just dont know much about turbos, how much they cost or what size to really get.

no i dont think so as long as the psi is like 8 somewhere around there you should be fine. but when it gets above say 11 or 12 then you are going to have to change your set up and trust me once you get that first turbo you will want a bigger one later on and then a even bigger one after that its addicting haaha

very possible. just dont exceed 8.5. and if u drive like a norm. then u shuld be stright

Then perhaps you shouldn't get one?

haha yeah i know what you mean. my friend is trying to sell me his mps which is already turboed so im looking into that rather then blowing up my ls.

Tim, you state that you know little about turbos; the best thing you can do is conduct YOUR OWN RESEARCH rather than get everyones opinion. Opinions are like rear ends, everyone has one and often, they ARE NOT VERY GOOD. Personally, (And I know I'll get flak for saying this but I really don't care!) Unless you are building a drag racing car, I'd scrap the turbo idea completely. There are way too many variables to consider when adding an aftermarket turbo application. If you get any of them wrong, you'll either blow the engine or have perpetual issues with the system. To be plain honest, unless you are buying a factory installed turbo car such as the WRX or Lancer, turbo applications are not practical for daily street driving. If you break it down, you'd find that an aftermarket supercharger, such as Jackson Racing would be a better choice "if" you want forced induction. Guys like turbos because they produce greater horsepower and make the "cool" blow-off valve sound. But, they produce massive amounts of heat, in most cases require an innercooler, exhibits turbo lag and gives full boost or nothing. The supercharger will not give you nearly as much power but it will give it instantly. It does not lag or produce massive amounts of heat; this is more appropriate for everyday street driving. It is generally less expensive and requires fewer modifications and engine management systems. So, do some research and make the best decision for YOU! Remember, when anyone sells a turbo car, there IS A REASON and usually, it's because they have issues they are unable to resolve. I hope this helped.

yeah that definitely helps. i'm really not trying to blow my motor, then i'd just go out and get a GSR or Type R motor. to save the hassle, i'd rather just get the new motor up front and pass on a turbo. im with you on the whole stock turbo idea though. i know someone who is eventually getting rid of a Mazda Protege Speed which has a stock turbo, so i think ill just save up. thanks.

yeah i talked myself into leaving it stock.

TL;DR

I deleted the other posting because I realized that you're an idiot and preferred not to engage your stupidity. However, out I curiosity, I went to you vehicle page and peeked. What a relevation! I'll write this strictly by the information YOU listed about YOUR CAR. ALL PICTURES are from the LEFT SIDE because the RIGHT SIDE WAS TAKEN FROM A DONOR CAR. In america, we call those SALVAGE TITLED CARS. You also said, you have a BENT and MISMATCHED WING you self installed on the FRONT. I assume thats a FENDER? You also stated, you gutted the cat converter and installed a LOUD MUFFLER and a performance air intake. You have lowering springs but don't know what kind they are? It has no carpet and the car smells of gasoline. So in summary, you bought a totaled car; you rigged the exhaust system in hope of horsepower gains, you gutted the carpet to reduce weight; you take all photos from the left side because that side looks normal. Yet...you talk shit about my car? In america we can always tell which cars are NOT FAST. They are the ones that are running around making noise and drawing attention to themselves. I can certainly see you doing that. Your car is a GHETTO piece of JUNK! And by you insulting ANYONES CAR shows just how STUPID and JEALOUS you GENUINELY ARE!...This one I won't DELETE because EVERYONE needs to know just how much of a FOOL YOU ARE!

haha nice. by the way though, without having any motor work, would a full exhaust system (headers, free flowing cat, and cat-back exhaust) increase horsepower in the slightest bit? I'm considering putting a full system in and don't want to be loosing power or gaining nothing at all. i can't find a website or any credible source for it. thanks.

full exhaust yea. but please dont put 3inch piping on it on anything. cuz then u wont have any back pressure, then ull lose power.b20vtec.com

TL;DR I hate you, let's be friends

yeah i was thinking that too, since im not really pushing out anything more then stock, it would seem pointless. thanks.

By all means do that! Go one step further by adding a high flow cat converter too. It reduces too much backpressure if you completely gut it. Also, the emissions will be wrong and your O2 Sensor will give false readings to the computer. The two single ways to add "giddy-up" is draw more air into the engine and expedite the exhaust gases. Those two things and a computer upgrade will be your best power gains initially.

yeah someone was telling me something about getting the car breathing right so im guessing thats what he means. my cat is falling apart anyway so better off spending a bit more and getting more horse for a new cat.

There are several choices for a high flow cat converter. I used one from Pacesetter. As a whole, their exhaust systems are below average, but, I do recommend their converter. It's low restriction and cost effective. I was able to bolt mine in as a direct replacement with no modifications.

Apologize first...you were a hypocrite, quite insulting and completely out of line.

I am not a hypocrite I am the other things though. Cunty troll is Cunty

alright thanks, i'll definitely have to look into that. as far as headers and exhaust i think im going DC and Skunk2 or something like that.

i gotta say, you are being misinformed. some of the info is good you are getting, but thats from someone who hasnt turboed a honda. i have. built my kit. it can be done very cheap(relativly). i did my first one for around $600, but that turbo took a shit and i made another. oh and btw, whoever said 10psi is retarded. you can go by psi, you go by hp. your engine can handle around 300whp, witch is pretty kick ass for stock. the reason you go by hp is because different turbos push diferent amounts of air (cfm). on turbo at 10psi could push lets say 300cfm, and another could do 450cfm. thats a pretty big diference in power. anyways, go to www.homemadeturbo.com if you want to learn about turboing your car. they know a ton about turboing hondas. and its way better and cheaper than a supercharger(if you make it yourself or piece it together)

oh and btw, look for MAJORAHOLE on there. he'll help you out oh an read the noob guide shit on what to put on your first post, they are kinda cruel otherwise

Jeff, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. BUT, a turbo will never be a BETTER AFTERMARKET choice over a supercharger relating to PRACTICAL street applications.

if you use a smaller turbo, you can spool by 2000 rpm, the power will fall off in the top end though, but still better than stock by quite a bit. maybe im just bias.

Smaller turbo would facilitate better bottom end but it would still lag; not as much and have big spooling top end punch. It would have to be a twin turbo to work well on the street. Then, you still have all or nothing boost not to mention heat management. I agree, you are biased but that makes the world go around.

what do you mean by work well on the street?

The PRACTICAL application of boosted power in routine driving situations without heat induced drawbacks which require precise engine management, innercooling and at times, a cool down prior to engine shut down. For racing applications, aftermarket turbos are unbeatable. For consistent smooth delivery of power as needed, maintaining A/C, minimal engine management and with little heat build up, the supercharger is king. Both applications work well in the correct environment. Factory turbo cars have years of R&D for successful street applications. Aftermarket turbos lack that degree of user friendly, minimal management for operation.

yeah and thats what i am looking for. the teg is my only car, otherwise i would have cams, turbo, everything done.

Well, it's like I said in my original posting. You have a LOT of guys that are turbo fans; and generally, they look strictly at power. Head to head, a supercharger can't compete powerwise when it comes to import racing application. But from a practical advantage; daily street use, the supercharger is best for all around performance.

i guess, but you'll allways get beat

Lol!..Jeff, it's strictly a trade off. To a street racer, it's far cooler to have that blow off valve "pop" between gear changes. Say what you will, a supercharged car will always jump a single turbo off the line because he doesn't HAVE to build boost. That isn't saying he'll stay in front though! For me, the unreliability and lack of vehicle convenience features makes the turbo a bad choice; it would be a bad choice for most mature people. But then, most reasonable drivers don't street race. So, getting beat doesn't effect me because I won't do anything as irresponsible as street racing.

I don go out and "street race". if you end up at a light with someone and they rev at you and shit, you know what i mean. i'll usually take off slow and when slow to normal traffic speed(after peeling out, thinkin i'll race from the light) thats when i match up with them and down shift and wait for them to nail it, then i putit down untill i clearly beat them (not long) then i resume normal traffic speed. btw, you should turbo your rex and see if you still think its not fun as hell oh and you can have the power at the line, but it doesnt mean much if you cant put it to the ground. turbo lag is just traction control!

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff...lol! That's street racing! Most people that rev their engines have nothing under the hood anyway. Why risk losing your license, damaging your car or injuring someone because a punk revs his engine? When I did race; a LONG time ago, it was at the drag strip. My CRX has PLENTY of giddy-up because I put it together very intelligently. If I need more than I have, I can always adjust the rev limiter or spray it. TURBO LAG isn't traction control. It's the response time required for the boost to kick in. With a belt driven supercharger, you don't wait for it; it's instant. Jump a Ford f-150 Lightening with your turbo and see what happens or a D Series Civic with a Jackson Racing supercharger. They will both be gone before you build boost!...lol! I respect your enthusiam for turbo systems. I'd never use one on a street car. BTW...did you see my CRX in Sports Compact Car magazine? It was there under reader rides in Dec 2002 issue.

shit, how'd you manage to get the CRX there? whats all done to it?

double click on my picture, that will take you to the site here with more pictures and specifics.

ya, i pretty sure i would beat a lighting or a jackson sc'd civic. judging by the 14's the lighting runs and only the 60hp a JR SC will add, that would be even less of a challenege. and i know what turbo lag is,that comment was a joke

Wish I lived close enough to win that money you're trying to give away!

Hmmmmm!...Turbo out accellerates a supercharger??? RIGHT!!! I suppose that explains why 98% of pro straight line racers use either Blowers or NOS??? THEY AVOID TURBOS FOR A REASON!!! That's right! Most drag turbo racers are dual turbo and make up the other 2%!!! I've seen turbo drag race cars fall on their faces momentarily before they take off down the track! That's playing catch up!...My bad! Well unless you consider F-1 or Indy cars that use turbos??? Wait a minute! They work in those applications because they stay in the boost with high rpms! MY BAD!....The turbo is BEST!!!!!......NOT! You have street racing and turbo on the brain! I think the entire world knows that you LOVE TURBOS! But don't blow sunshine up my rear end trying to convince me of "superhuman" feats that are "unique to you car!"...GEEEEEEEZZZZZ!

i think everyone knows you havn't a clue. after seeing your crx i know that you know nothing of racing, d-series, or Forced induction the fastes turbo race cars have single turbos, and a trans brake and n20. you know what that means? the revs are up of the line and n20 spools it to full boost. have you been to a top fuel race before???? i wished you lived close enough, would be the easiest $ i ever made. JDM D15 whopping 130whp, with nos maybe 180? with no engine management and stock fuel system?

As hard as I tried to respect you and agree to disagree, YOU AREN'T HAVING IT ARE YOU? So, in that case..... Oh well!...opinions vary? I hadn't read of anyone asking for your half assed advise on street racing? Everything your dumb ass specifically mentions is on PRO RACING CARS!...DUUUUHHHH! And yes, I've attended the NOPI racing series and several IDR events at Thunder Valley in Bristol, TN. I don't recall seeing YOUR car in Sports Compact Car Magazine! My CRX is as I intended it to be; a fast, reliable daily driver that was FUN. I DIDN'T WANT A B SERIES ENGINE! Too expensive to replace when damaged. BTW, that is a ZC engine, but the USA equilivant is a D16. as in SOHC VTEC 1.6 you dork! If I were to damage it, I could replace it inexpensively; switch out the cam (+15 hp) switch out the flywheel (+10 hp) OMG!!! I just hit 155 flywheel hp! Exhaust is about another 8-10, intake 5-7, Zdyne computer upgrade is 12-15. (You are free to argue with HA sport since you know everything!) Damn "speed racer!" Now I'm at 175 without the spray! I could include the underdrive pulley and extensive ignition upgrades but why bother? Like you said, it's only a D series. Then again, if I gave a rat's ass about "your" retarded opinion, "I'd give it to YOU Speed Racer!" And thanks to "shadetree know it alls" like you, they paid for most of the work I did to my car! I had no trouble taking on B series Hondas successfully. Unlike you, I carefully picked my battles and won most of them. Tell you what though, if you have enough balls, I'll race you best three out of five in 1/8 mile track for pink slips. I doubt if your car will hold together for that many runs...mine will! I'll meet you halfway at a mutually agreed sanctioned race track. Put up or shut up! You are a petty street racer that rigs his car with bubble gum and bailing wire. When you get a car that does everything well, let me know. Until then...shut your piehole.

Almost forgot....Thanks for proving my point in your TURBO DRAG car ranting. Those are the EXACT reasons they are NOT PRACTICAL for everyday routine driving! Which is what I stated from the jump street!...YOU PUTZ!

I emailed Jeff privately requesting details regarding a legal sanction PINKS style race for titles; I've yet to hear from him?

I'm not sure why people are saying 10psi is the safe limit when each application is different, but I'm not saying that a motor wont blow at 10psi either (there's A LOT of variables to consider). Yes, a turbo can be setup on a LS safely without changing the internals. However, do prepare to dish a lot of money aside. Don't take shortcuts and don't cheap out on parts. Throwing a reliable setup on a car takes a lot of research, time and money. Most of the reliability will come from the tune, so finding a good, trusty tuner is essential. It also seems that you aren't very knowledgeable about cars yet. As Logan said, do conduction some research yourself. Having a turbo involves a lot of your own time to keep it maintained. Will you be up for it?

Bong'r, out of respect for your knowledge, I wanted to explain something about the dialog between myself and Jeff Parsons. To be clear, my CRX isn't a pimple on the average turbo cars ass! BUT, in the case of his car, you can tell it's rigged and not done with any real thought or consideration. As I said, I generally won't race but in his case, I'd make an exception.His car is an unreliable bomb waiting to break. Plus, he isn't as smart as he thinks he is. So..TURBO guys..I have much respect for the power. I tried to convey to Jeff that turbo are not a one size fits all and they're the best application for a street car. It all depends upon the driver and what works best for them. It seemed that the more I tried to be diplomatic, the bigger the chip became on his shoulder. I apologize if I offended any Turbo fans with the sole exception of Jeff...he's a PUTZ!

'His car is an unreliable bomb waiting to break" I have to say, I'm just catching up reading this thread and I have to agree... It sounds like he cranks the boost to the max the bottom end can handle without the slightest thought as to what the heads can reliably take (If my math is right that'd be somewhere about 2.5 times atmospheric ~21psi boost assuming efficiency is maintained). That's alot of pressure on the valve train and really shouldn't be done without thinking about increase spring hardness and upgrading retainers... He gauges a turbo based on it's max flow, which would lead me to think he's go a massively over sized turbo for his small displacement car. the cfm's of a rated turbo are related to it's dimensions and the pressure it builds at a specified rpm range... You change the boost pressure you change the flow rate CFM's Cubic feet per minute... Now a honda motor doesn't need to suck as much air as say... a turbo diesel truck... so going overboard on max flow just means you're giving yourself more lag for no reason. Look at the specs for premade kits if you plan to build your own and gauge your needs based on what professionals have gone through R&D to figure out. Of you can try to calculate it, but that's nearly impossible with the changes in temperature inherit in engines, let alone Force induction systems... V=(n*R*T)/P... Turbo's are amazing systems but as Logan has pointed out they are not for everyone, and they aren't something that can be half ass'ed, at least not without sacrificing reliability... I've been at odds with Logan before (and prolley will again...the world goes round and round) but I respect him and his knowledge. I thought it might be beneficial to this topic to explain some of the flaws in logic that brought me, and likely him, to this conclusion...

Thanks Adam..and like you, yes we have butted heads. I hope you'll agree that on the occasions we did, it was strictly over the issue discussed. You have a wealth of knowledge and I include you in the small percentage of knowledgable tuners that post as a VERY RELIABLE source. The respect is mutual.

THIS IS AN UPDATE REGARDING JEFF PARSONS: He contacted me through facebook email and asked me to drive all the way to Indiana to race him? What a COWARD!! He states that racing for fun on the streets is "OK" and to race on the drag strip for titles or for money is "GAY?" Wow!...what a "wannabe!" Furthermore, he made that his final correspondence to me...THANK GOD! and blocked me so he could have the last word. So, for the record...He is a "weenie" that knows very little and throws a tantrum when it's pointed out to him! Jeff, in case you hadn't noticed....NO ONE AGREED WITH YOUR POSTING!...Some DID AGREE WITH ME! Good luck to you and your cheap car in your street racing career. I sincerely hope that when you get caught, AND YOU WILL...it isn't after you've killed someone.

dude im not the one who threw the tantrum, i stopped posting because you obviously cant listen to reason or proof. you want toi race me, why shouyld i have to drive anywhere???? i dont need to race you, aparently you NEED to race me. as far as for pink, i guess im not "hardcore" enough into the "tuner" lifestyle. i did notice noone agreed, cause noone here has a clue about waht a boosted d-series even is. let alone a TD05H turbo charger, you dont either. so therefore i stopped bothering, because these people and yourself cant comprehend. its cool, if you NEED to race for money thoug, i'll put $5 on it!

TD05 were a familly of charges used in various forms on Chrysler, Mitsubishi, Volvo, Subaru and others... The H if I remember denotes it was intended Mitsubishi (or Eagle) which means it's most likely a 6-6.8 cm aluminum compressor with a 7 cubic cm inlet... turbine ought to be 16g or 14g/b, unless it's been machined to allow for the 18 g turbines...They did end up in other applications but the Mitsubishi one are common.. . with flow at 15psi rough between 400-500 cubic feet per minutes Aftermarket versions have up to a 22G impeller... Which had varying flow rates but you could expect over 600 at 15psi Known for high boost numbers and a relatively light rotating mass allowing 'em to spool fast... Also known for grenadeing if they get hot for too long(Cheap bi-metal bearings). Popular because you can find 'em in almost any large junkyard. Doesn't really say much about your turbo's capabilities without more information... On Mitsubishi alone the TD05H went through more than 4 variations... Have you little bash with Logan but don't insult the people on this board... Many are career mechanics, ASE certified, SAE members, or whatever the Euro equivalents are.

psi is not a factor until you factor in what size turbo and trim you go with. a bigger turbo will move more cfm at x psi than a smaller turbo boosting the same psi. a more realistic question to ask is: how much horse power is my goal? you as well as other answering your questions need to research more. figure out how much hp you want to reach if you're trying to reach more than 250 i would recommend internals. to others that number may be higher.. or it may be lower but every motor is as different as our fingerprints. do a compression test to see how healthy those rings are. You don't want to blow your motor? well... in that case better have a car dolly ready for your car to be towed after installation. you better book some dyno time with a reputable tuner. this is one of the most important parts to keeping your motor reliable. This is just a snow flake on the tip of the iceberg. there are thousands of things you must research about. IMO Ls are one of the best motor to boost alongside the d16z6. my LS plans mainly consist of head work. port, polish, bigger tb, all port matched, cams, and valve train. my bottom end is getting fresh bearings, forged pistons and rods with new rings and balance whole assembly. thinking about sleeves... Attached picture is the chassis for this setup. i also have another white hatch depending on how crazy i want to get into this. i might turn that into a trailor queen.

i didn't even know there was pages and pages of more comments. LOL i just read the first page and commented. stop the hate guys! there are pros and cons to all performance adders. i shall use this time to picture whore.

I hear ya David. And, if you read the postings, I hope you'll see that I tried to be the bigger man about this. I finally had to call his bluff. It's a wrap now as he has begun to attack anyone that disagrees with him.

Adam...I agree with you. That guy needs a reality check. I only called his bluff because I knew he was a "wannabe." Anyway, if he were a man...he'd let it go. You and I have disagreed but it was not malicious on either part; we agreed to disagree and both of us were ok with that. I doubt if Jeff is mature enough to know the difference.

yeah, i just read all the postings... Everything I said was already been mentioned. Man, there are some good knowledgeable people around here and without a doubt you are one of them Logan. And from the posting it sure did sound like he skimped on a few parts of his turbo build... as a result his turbo already blew. i have a turbonetics t3/t4 hybrid that i received from a friend that i know didn't abuse it much but regardless i am still going to rebuild it. Cheaping out the first time only means more money in the end. you have to budget when budgeting makes sense and pay to play when important parts come into play.

Well stated David and makes 100% sense. BUT!..there's at least ONE person out there thinking otherwise....lol!

I always love a good super/turbo thread. The turbo may fall flat on it's face at 7000rpm. But that 8psi rip from 2Krpm - 7000rpm would knock the doors off of the same vehicle with a 8psi supercharger. The supercharged vehicle would not see 8psi until high in the rpm range, granted it would be building that 8psi slowly to that point. The turbo would have the 8 psi through out it's power range. Even if a turbo was to have huge lag, say you don't see boost until 5000rpm, if you have a 8.5K redline your power range will be between 5-8.5K when will you be below it. Shifting will still land you between those numbers. Maybe for the .5 second when you launch you'll be below 5K rpm. Now that is ideal in a 1/4 mile type situation. though for autocross a supercharger would be a better bet, the power becomes a little more predicable. With my car on 10psi I can cruise around at 4.5K rpm all day long and pull 12-14 inhg but depressing the pedal slightly the boost jumps up to 10psi instantly, not exactly what you want in a short race course with limited traction and low speeds.

you can turbo without spending the green on engine internals... if you keep the boost low and get the engine tuned when you turbo it i dont see why you couldnt run it at 6-9lbs of boost... i would however update the valvetrain and heads when you do it though... you will be able to run 12-15lbs of boost and will see much better performance... or you could just sell your car and get a mustang... that would be more fun too hahaha

I heard that people with Mustangs drive them because they're...well,..ahem!..."tiny" in other areas. HEY DUMBASS! This is not a forum for the "Muatang Mental!" No one her gives a RATS ASS about a skinking assed MUSTANG; ESPECIALLY YOURS! Besides, every posting from you I've read thus far is really generic and wrong in most cases.

PS....There is some one on here dumber than JEFF PARSONS!.... He drives a MUSTANG!

man you have some serious issues dont you... I drive a mustang because there fun to drive... if you have a problem with that then i suggest you pull your slander off these fourms... if you wanna give this kid some advice on turbos then go ahead... id take anyone who thinks that your gonna run big boost on stock internals in anything... seriously man your not special to anyone... BTW nice ricebox... im sure your very proud of it... looks a bit like lunch to me... already boxed...

Aheeeem!..anyone home you idiot? We don't care about you or your Mustang.

BTW...did you even bother to READ my posting before opening your piehole? YOU ARE REAL DUMB!

Yo Tim If you wanna learn a little more about turbos buy a book by Corky Bell called Maximum boost. It will give a pretty good idea about turbos and their workings as well as motor prep etc. Any one can give you advice, some good some bad. I'd love to say that all motors are the same but that's not the case. you can get the Multi valve 325i BMW motor with stock rods and gasket to boost 2 bar with the right pistons and AFR. We've done it.... the engine has been racing for the past 4 years and has not yet been opened. Recently we ran 10.7 sec quarter mile with it in a stock street car that gets driven daily. Go figure.