dumping fuel into throttle body on 94 fleetwood caddiliac.

was showing a low fuel pressure initially & replaced fuel pump & regulator, threw a code 16 replaced the opti spark & plugs...threw a code 43 looking at anti knock sensors. Was still dumping raw fuel into ttbi....thinking still antiknock sensors...what about cooling water temp sensor on water pump.

Usually this is a bad fuel injector doing this.

bad fuel injector in tbi!

wondering to if it might be the e prom on the pcm, its doing it across the whole engine.

Could be pcm doing it,but more than likely it will be a bad injector.

whats that cost...any idea!

The cost would vary depending on if dealer or regular mechanic does it,should not be much to check it thoe,all they have to do is pull one wire at a time on fuel injectors to see which one is bad.

yes okay seems its affecting both

wondering if would it possibly be caused by the pellet in the key, got good fuel flow at both tbi injectors..

wondering to if it might be cooling water sensor the one in the water pump/?!

If the O2 sensors are bad, it will run rich. The temperature sending unit is also a cause. The pcm is just getting the wrong information from these sensors.

o2 sensors would they influence how much fuel is delivered.

Yes if they are bad, and also the temp. sending unit.

okay point of thought...what about the e prom on the pcm, that controls fuel air 7 engine power...

have plenty mil volts at o2 sensors & no codes...for the o2 sensors

you do mean the cooling water sensing sensor in the water pump.!?

also what about the fuel pump sending unit.

Air Idle Control sensor?

The fuel pump sending unit, no. At the AIC it builds up with gum and crap. Auto Zone can test the sensor. The port the sensor sits in could need to be cleaned up. The temperature sending unit that registers the temp. of the engine coolant sends information the the pcm to adjust fuel mixture from cold start to operating temp. These two sensors along with the 02 sensor adjust for the proper air/fuel mixture during the operation of the engine.

okay...the aic where is it located, never heard of that.because it starts, dumping fuel in , shut the engine off & wont restart...

EPROM is erasable programmable read only memory. One other thing, were both the injectors dumping raw fuel?

so you dont think it'd be the eprom...both injectors were dumping raw fuel regualtor was replaces as well as fuel pump.

how electrically do you check the aic, and is there a code the pmc will throw on this component

Testing sensors I am not up on, just know what they do. (Auto Zone). Highly unlikely both injectors are bad at once. Something telling them to dump gas. Now, also have you checked for codes? I myself have not tried to pull codes from a OBD1 pcm. If there was a code it would indicate a lean condition, pcm trying to compensate for the added air. I would check the TBI base gasket, and snug up the intake bolts. Oh, the aic is on the TBI and has a square plug to it.

the aic would that influnce the idle speed as well?

okay , gaskets on tbi, because with all that fuel going it would give a sense of more air than normal...right?

Most definitely.

have not seen codes for a lean mix...any idea on the code that'd be?

So what codes have you read so I am not trying to pull a rabbit out of my hat?

have had a code 16, & 43 addressed these.with new opit spark 7 ani knock sensors.

po016;Possible causes - Mechanical timing fault - Blocked oil passage - Low oil level - Failed actuator assembly - Faulty camshaft position sensor - Faulty crankshaft position sensor Read more: http://www.autocodes.com/p0016_cadillac.html#ixzz3uVhOhLN9 po043;Possible causes - Faulty Heated Oxygen Sensor (H2OS) Bank 1 Sensor 3 - Heated Oxygen Sensor (H2OS) Bank 1 Sensor 3 harness is open shorted - Heated Oxygen Sensor (H2OS) Bank 1 Sensor 3 circuit poor electrical connection - Heated Oxygen Sensor (H2OS) Bank 1 Sensor 3 fuse - Faulty Engine Control Module (ECM) Read more: http://www.autocodes.com/p0043.html#ixzz3uVi7GIcR

also pulled the car out of staorgae had been idle for 4 months, had been started monthy, started car up drove around town 7 highway , shut it down following day went out to start & noticed clouds of smoke out right tail pipe nothing from the lect pie, shut down to see under hood & car would not start, day beore when started up haed the hose from the exp tnk blow off at the T , replaced same...

Are you saying there may be a blown head gasket?

does not appear as such...

no it does not appear ahead gasket...but starting it baly runs long enough befor the gasoline snufs the spark

also its backfiring through the crancase breather

Do you have enough to check? Talking and fixing too many things at once, you don't know what to do next. I would start with the AIC, 02 sensor, temperature sending unit, have them tested (Auto Zone) and I am reading there is a fuse for the 02 sensors that could be blown due to condensation. I would verify the compression also. Have to start eliminating things. I'll be here checking my e-mail, I have things to get done today, but I will keep up with this.

okay....did compression check its good...aic am looking at that...temp sending unit is this the cooling water sensor on the water pump....okay will check you e mail later...thanks by the way, most helpfull...

Ok, backfiring has a lot to do with the timing, without checking here, there may be a crank shaft sensor, & cam shaft sensor, that effects this, but not sure if yours has it, I would have to look it up.

Alright, one more before I go for now, temp sensor by thermostat housing, or side of the head, you see wires running to the water pump then that is one. sometimes there are more than one. So what was the compression across all the cylinders? Gotta go..

okay i'm billshaver@afgimail.com...compression ...cnt remember off top of my head....

another tough might be, sunds ridicilious now, but since it was not driven for 4 months ..the tank was at 3/4 full...wonder about gasoline quality....a hunch, seems ridicilious that i drove out of storage yard about 25 miles....but athought.

I have a year & 1/2 on my tank of gas in a vehicle that sits outside, this would not cause your injector problem. So can you remember if all the cylinders were within 15% of each other? on the compression test.

so gasoline quality not the problem...but what would cause max air , causing the pmc to max fuel...????

Actually the MAP sensor, but yours must be built into the pcm. What has ben checked so far? What are the results.

optispark, anti knock, o2 sensors....ignition coil....fuel pump changed out...wonder about sending unit could it send to much fuel?

No not the sending unit, the fuel regulator adjusts to 9 to 13 lbs. of pressure. Check that TBI base gasket.

okay not anything to do with pump, reg is new...okay will be away from terminal checking

And pull the AIC and clean inside the TBI since it will be off, easier to do...I have until 9:30 am eastern, then I have to go for just over an hour until I am back.

one other question how rich can the water temp sensor make the engine run rich...to the point of large clouds of smoke....

okay...will be off aigain...

Ok, I am back for my opinion, finding anything?

Hey Bill what have you found?

Must be on the road, I'd like to know what you found. Somehow I think we were over thinking this, I bet you had the injectors replaced.

well the mech has other things at the garage ...so I'm waiting, question about the pmc eproms...how do they fail, they go to the max or min in conjunction with fuel & air?

Good morning there Bill, I am not much on pcm diagnostics, but do have some sources to check, I will see what I can find...

okay I'm here

Ok, done some reading. Do not think anything with the eproms. Really the only way would be a short, or a high voltage spike. Now the only thing I am really coming up with are: make sure there is a voltage pulse to the injectors, (that I have to investigate further), dirty injectors, which is fitting your problem, the temperature sending unit, and 02 sensors. Between these two sensors determine how rich it will run, not to mention the thermostat, engine has to warm up to operating temp. in order for a closed loop can occur to lean out fuel mixture. Was that TBI cleaned, and the base gasket checked?

Tbi gasket is there and good no leaks....if the manifold gasket was leaking you'd have oil all over the place....not happening....voltage pule to injectors is there because the car starts when cold, shut down, engine wont restart till engine is cold, telling me electric problem....

Bill are you running yet?

no not yet still awaiting an answer...its long in the tooth....

Explain long in the tooth...I got some time...

I.m not sure about GM products, they are not my "area" but Toyota on a cold start is in 'open loop' and the signals from o2 sensors are ignored until they heat up from the electric circuit and exhaust heat, and intentionally runs rich cold. Then when heated the system goes in to closed loop and the ECU takes data from them as part of data from them and other sensors to set fuel/air trim.